Hello,
It's my pleasure to advise a youth group that enjoys camping; especially with canoes. We rent as needed which is cost effective but limits where / when we can go. They are talking about building kayaks. A kayak holds 1 person, is not cheap to build and what happens when someone interested in the group wants to come along to check out the experience. I am advising them to consider larger oar/sailboats that can camp 3-4 youth per boat. Boats stay with group as youth cycle through. Possibly 4-5 boats eventually. Idea would be to build Fall/Winter/Sprint starting with one or two; get used to the boats on tame water under oar and eventually work our way up to camping on relatively tame water. We are located in Rochester NY USA and venture afar to Canada and New England (Maine Island Trail would be great after a few years of experience).
Boats under strong consideration are the CLC Northeaster Dory, Clint Chase's Deblois Street Dory, Lillistone's Phoenix III. I just bumped into the Goat Island Skiff (GIS) and am getting excited. It shines in some of the areas that are challenging with the others. I am listing our criteria with my opinion on how the GIS stacks up. My very ignorant, uninformed, never having seen much less sailed a GIS. If you can comment on any of these thoughts we'd sure appreciate it.
Building from plans: not to save money or because Noah is our uncle; just need to fund-as-we-go. So purchase initial plywood, build, fund raise, build, fund raise, build, etc.
Plans Quality ***
Easy. Everyone raves about the quality of the plans, and support from designer.
Referrals ***
Easy. Many examples online of successful builds and use. A lot of support from current fleet. Approaching cult like status.
Ease of Build ***
Looks relatively straightforward. Again, detailed quality plans. I am seeing butt joints (avoids scarf-a-phobia a bit); a box mast; not as much fiberglass work as other designs. And it looks like the pieces are already measured – no spiling or not knowing plank dimensions ahead of time. So with proper licensing we can make a copy or two of a part as we move through that part of the plans. No master carpenters or experienced boat builders on hand but we’ve done a lot of reading (becalmed in the Sargasso Sea of design indecision as we are).
Length of build ***
Because of the above comments about parts the 1st boat may take a year but the second could follow the first very quickly. Or maybe not a year if we have task specific work sessions (you two are working on this part while these other two are working on this part).
Crew **
I see images of the GIS under Oar with many people. Under oar I think four for crew would work. Under sail maybe 3 youth and gear?
Stability *
It’s a performance boat. If you push the limits it will flip. Looks like you may get to those limits real quick sometimes. Use of ballast, reefing, boxing in center seat can help with this. For the youth, this might be offset by performance. Also, stay out of front of boat. Nice flotation too.
Rowing *
There are accounts of long passages under oar, but I think the GIS is maybe more a sailboat than rowboat? 60/40 maybe? Also, some of the other designs offer multiple rowing stations – very different designs I understand.
Seaworthiness **
I understand this is crew related. But there are waters we will not take canoes into but would be ok taking kayaks. I’d like the sail/oar boat to at least be in-between those somewhere. I would give *** to something like Welford’s Navigator)
Cost ***
GIS seems to excel at most boat for buck. I am hoping that with qualify materials but a workboat finish we can keep it under $2000 USB (note: Storer’s Simple Sails helps with this).
Ease of Sail ***
The lug rig. Does not get much simpler. Yawl is interesting too. Sails should have reef points. A bit of concern about learning to drive in a Ferrari.
Thanks
John
It's my pleasure to advise a youth group that enjoys camping; especially with canoes. We rent as needed which is cost effective but limits where / when we can go. They are talking about building kayaks. A kayak holds 1 person, is not cheap to build and what happens when someone interested in the group wants to come along to check out the experience. I am advising them to consider larger oar/sailboats that can camp 3-4 youth per boat. Boats stay with group as youth cycle through. Possibly 4-5 boats eventually. Idea would be to build Fall/Winter/Sprint starting with one or two; get used to the boats on tame water under oar and eventually work our way up to camping on relatively tame water. We are located in Rochester NY USA and venture afar to Canada and New England (Maine Island Trail would be great after a few years of experience).
Boats under strong consideration are the CLC Northeaster Dory, Clint Chase's Deblois Street Dory, Lillistone's Phoenix III. I just bumped into the Goat Island Skiff (GIS) and am getting excited. It shines in some of the areas that are challenging with the others. I am listing our criteria with my opinion on how the GIS stacks up. My very ignorant, uninformed, never having seen much less sailed a GIS. If you can comment on any of these thoughts we'd sure appreciate it.
Building from plans: not to save money or because Noah is our uncle; just need to fund-as-we-go. So purchase initial plywood, build, fund raise, build, fund raise, build, etc.
Plans Quality ***
Easy. Everyone raves about the quality of the plans, and support from designer.
Referrals ***
Easy. Many examples online of successful builds and use. A lot of support from current fleet. Approaching cult like status.
Ease of Build ***
Looks relatively straightforward. Again, detailed quality plans. I am seeing butt joints (avoids scarf-a-phobia a bit); a box mast; not as much fiberglass work as other designs. And it looks like the pieces are already measured – no spiling or not knowing plank dimensions ahead of time. So with proper licensing we can make a copy or two of a part as we move through that part of the plans. No master carpenters or experienced boat builders on hand but we’ve done a lot of reading (becalmed in the Sargasso Sea of design indecision as we are).
Length of build ***
Because of the above comments about parts the 1st boat may take a year but the second could follow the first very quickly. Or maybe not a year if we have task specific work sessions (you two are working on this part while these other two are working on this part).
Crew **
I see images of the GIS under Oar with many people. Under oar I think four for crew would work. Under sail maybe 3 youth and gear?
Stability *
It’s a performance boat. If you push the limits it will flip. Looks like you may get to those limits real quick sometimes. Use of ballast, reefing, boxing in center seat can help with this. For the youth, this might be offset by performance. Also, stay out of front of boat. Nice flotation too.
Rowing *
There are accounts of long passages under oar, but I think the GIS is maybe more a sailboat than rowboat? 60/40 maybe? Also, some of the other designs offer multiple rowing stations – very different designs I understand.
Seaworthiness **
I understand this is crew related. But there are waters we will not take canoes into but would be ok taking kayaks. I’d like the sail/oar boat to at least be in-between those somewhere. I would give *** to something like Welford’s Navigator)
Cost ***
GIS seems to excel at most boat for buck. I am hoping that with qualify materials but a workboat finish we can keep it under $2000 USB (note: Storer’s Simple Sails helps with this).
Ease of Sail ***
The lug rig. Does not get much simpler. Yawl is interesting too. Sails should have reef points. A bit of concern about learning to drive in a Ferrari.
Thanks
John
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